Sticking Points: Isolation Exercise to Compound Lifts #1 (Shoulder Press part 1)

Dislcaimer: These calculations are estimates based on my personal workout log.

Intro

At the beginning of weight lifting, progressing on compound lifts seem to increase in a linear fashion. At some point, there would inevitably be a plateau. When troubleshooting for plateaus, sometimes the reason is due to a weak body part (ex. lagging glutes, grip strength, triceps, etc.). The proverb ‘A chain is only as strong as its weakest link’ definetely applies when analysing the muscle contribution for compound lifts. The exercise we’ll be discussing in this blog post is the shoulder press. There are many muscles involved in the exercise, but the primary ones are front delts, side delts, triceps, core, and bit of upper chest.

Story Time/Background

Earlier this year, I had golfer’s elbow and tennis elbow on my right side and therefore avoided exercises that involved any shoulder flexion exercises (dumbbell lateral raises, low cable flys, front raises where my arms were mostly straight. This period was around 1-2 months. I did machine lateral raises for my side delts and dips for my triceps and chest. My front delts did get some exposure, but not enough to make a differerence when I eventually went to test for my shoulder press (both barbell and dumbbell). Almost everytime I perform the shoulder press, I tend to fail before the mid point. After doing some research in looking for sticking points, I end up finding a reddit post : https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/7vwodf/compendium_to_overcoming_weak_points/ , that points tips for overcoming weak points in 4 exercises: Deadlifts, Squats, Bench Press, and Shoulder Press. According to that post, the front delts are the main contributor up until the upper arm is parallel to the ground (or elbow are 90 degrees). At midpoint, side delts are involved. Past 90 degrees, triceps make the most contribution. The upper back seemed to be important for the entire lift, but I beleive it’s there for stabilization.

Decision To Do Isolation Exercises Between Two Shoulder Pressing Assessments That Is Two Weeks Apart

This past month, I did a two week separation between two barbell shoulder press testing where I performed isolation exercises and this time I was doing front delt work, but occasionally changing the variations at times, but still progressing. At first, I was doing lying front raises as I wanted to get stronger front delts where it mattered for the bench press. Later on, I saw someone doing cable front raises with the rope attachment, and it became a better option due to sprained right middle finger where I only needed my thumb and index finger but also very similar motor pattern as a standing front raises. The only difference between a front raise and a shoulder press, as far as front delts in concerned, is that the moment arm between the lifting hand and the shoudler joint is nearly doubled when doing front raises compared to the shoulder press meaning that more resistance is needed to overcome the gravitational force. In other words, having the elbow bent with weight above elbow with other muscles involved helps lift heavier weight due to biomechanical efficiency.

Website used for upcoming 1RM calculations: https://21plusrepmax.com/ (any one rep max calculator website will do)

Before and After using Isolation Exercises to Assess Impact on Shoulder Press

Before:

Dumbbell Front Raise 1RM : 47.6 lbs (30lbs x 18 reps; high reps) (4/3/24)

Supine Front Raises 1RM : 30lbs ( 15 lbs x 30 reps) (getting used to exercise, so expected strength gains due to neurological adaptation) (4/5/24)

Machine Lateral Raises 1RM : 176.1.8 lbs (125lbs x 12lbs) (4/3/24)

Machine Lateral Raises 1RM : 200 lbs (130lbs x 16lbs) (4/20/24)

Supine Front Raises 1RM : 42.3lbs ( 30lbs x 12 reps) (4/22/24)

Shoulder Press 1RM : 157 lbs (135lbs x 6) (4/22/24)

After:

Dumbbell Front Raise 1RM : 48.2 lbs (40lbs x 7 reps; low reps and after barbell press instead of dumbbell press) (5/7/24) [From 4/3: 1.2% increase (+0.6 lbs)]

Machine Lateral Raises 1RM : 215.9 lbs (125lbs x 22lbs) (5/1/24) [From 4/20: 7.95% increase (+15.9 lbs)]

Supine Front Raises 1RM : 49.2 lbs ( 30lbs x 19 reps) (4/29/24) [From 4/22: 16.3% increase (+6.9 lbs)]

Shoulder Press 1RM : 162.7 lbs (135lbs x 7) (5/7/24) [From 4/22: 3.6% increase (+5.7 lbs)]

Analysis of 2 week Results

In reterospect, I should have tested the dumbbell front raises with the same weight to make the assessment more accurate. Even so, after doing 40lb dumbbell front raises for the first time, I still increased my 1 rep max. I’m almost positive that with 30lbs, I could have increase it by 1-2 reps making it past 49 lb 1RM which would have created a 1.5lb (+3%) increase instead of the recorded .6lb increase. The dumbbell front raises has the most similar correlation compared to the shoulder press which makes sense due to the fact that the front delts is my weak point. The supine front dumbbell raises despite having a generous increase didn’t help with the shoulder press. My speculation is for 2 reasons: 1) neurological adaption and 2) motor pattern more specific to bench press (which is why I chose that exercise) instead to the overhead press at the time. At this point, I’m going to use the results of both the dumbbell front raises and shoulder press since they have to same exact rep amount of 7 to create a TEMPORARY formula that I hope can maintain some vailidity in part 2.

Calculations #1

162.7 lbs (shoulder press) / 48.2 lbs (DB Front Raises) = 3.37 => 1RM Front Raises * 3.37 = estimated 1RM shoulder Press

So to get a 200 lb 1RM shoulder press, (200 / 3.37 = 59.347) will require a 1RM of 59-60 pound dumbbell front raise of each hand.

New Front Delt Isolation Exercise: Cable Front Raises

On May 1st 2024, as seen on fourth image, I began doing cable front raises after seeing someone else doing them and felt inspired to give it a go. The movement is similar to front raises and strengthens the lengthed/weaker part of the front delt due the nature of cable machines. The resistance is constant with cables while the resistance of free weight is influenced by gravity. With free weights, lateral and front raises are hardest at the top, while its the opposite with cables. The images below offer a perspective on the strength expectations between free weights and cables using lateral raises as an example. The two leftmost ones are the dumbbell lateral raise and the cable lateral raise while the right image is the barbell front raise.

This website is from :https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards. I use this very often ever since I found out about it within 2 years ago. From experience, hitting Advanced mark at your ideal bodyweight is when the worked body part/(s) starts to look big, while Elite is basically huge.

If you look at the left and center image, you will notice that the strength requirements are higher for cables than it is for dumbbell. It wasn’t until recently that I learned the importance of understanding the pulleys of the cable machine. Basically the amount of cables attached to the weight stack is the divisor of the labeled weight. Two examples: 1) Lat Pulldown Machine only has one cable, so 160 lbs is 160lbs. 2) Pec Flys or Lateral Raises, 60lbs is 30lbs due to having a pulley with 2 cable attached to the weight plates. Looking at the discussed images again and using 150lbs striving for advanced as an example, dumbbell lateral raises will be 49lbs at the advanced mark while for cable lateral raises it will be 35lbs (70 / 2). This makes more sense than taking the numbers at face value and not knowing any better about “applied pulley math” (past-self), due to the same weight being more challenging that the stretched portion of the muscle.

Calculations #2

We’ll be using 170lbs as an example. The ratio between dumbbell and cable will be different depending on the progression of levels

Lateral Raises

Intermediate: ’40 lbs’ or 20lbs (cables) / 34lbs (dumbbell) = true cable strength potential is 58.8% dumbbell exercise

Advanced : ’78 lbs or 39lbs (cables) / 54lbs (dumbbell) = true cable strength potential is 72.2% dumbbell exercise

Elite : ‘125 lbs or 62.5lbs(cables) / 77lbs (dumbbell) = true cable strength potential is 81.17% dumbbell exercise

Barbell Front Raises / Cable Front Raises (based on lateral raises)

Intermediate : 82 lbs (barbell front raise) => 96-97 lbs is the label and 48 lbs is the true weight (82 * .588 = 48lbs)

Advanced : 148 lbs (barbell front raise) => 213.712 lbs is the label and 106.86 lbs is the true weight (148 * .722 = 48lbs)

Elite : 230 lbs (barbell front raise) => 373.38 lbs is the label and 186.691 lbs is the true weight (230 * .8117 = 48lbs)

Example

If a person’s lateral raise strength is between intermedite and advanced, a guess percentage will be 65%. So, if a 1RM of a dumbbell lateral raises is 40lbs, then the true cable potential is 26lbs, but 52lbs will be apllied on the machine.

Thoughts and Considerations

Things to keep in mind: 1) The odds are super low that a side 2 pulley cable maching will have 300 pounds. 2) These are estimates only and estimates will more solidified in a few months from now given that I stick to cable front raises for at least a few months. 3) This formula is more appropriate when the exercise goes from easiest to hardest such as front raises, reverse hip extenstions, hip abduction, lateral raises, leg extensions, etc. This wouldn’t work very well for exercises where it’s hardest at the midpoint to the exercise such as bicep curls, pullups, tricep extensions, etc.. For biceps, it can have a different application in a good way if the cable is 45 degrees behind you so that there’s constant 100% tension instead of directly below you. For exercises that are hardest at the beginning with free weights such as supine pec flys, I think that the numbers can be similar, but only at the lengthened part of the muscle.

Closing

I’m going to strive to acheive a 1RM of 210lbs of cable front raises (currently 137.5lbs) along with other isometric exercises that are used in shoulder press such as side delts, bit of upper chest, and triceps. If I’m right, I should be able to hit an estimate of 1RM of 180lbs for shoulder press and 148lbs 1RM for barbell front raises or 64lbs for dumbbell front raises. Also by reaching it, it will prove wether a 60lb dumbbell front raise is closer to 180lb or 200lb shoulder press.